Confounded!!
I just received an email from a relative of mine. This relative is someone that has been spoken of as a reverent man, one who attends church twice a week, is a supportive father of three boys, one of whom is now a minister.
This email he sent was horrifying to me.
It wasn't lecturing me on my religious practices, it wasn't lude jokes, it wasn't anything regarding my fertility struggles.
It was an email laced with intolerance.
The U.S. Postal Service will be releasing this stamp, along a collection of other Christmas stamps:
And contained the following hateful remarks:
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm Flight 103!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military barracks in Saudi Arabia!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on 9/11/2001!
REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!
Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class holiday postage stamp.
REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp when purchasing your stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.
I am sorry, but perhaps I am just confused. WHY should I boycott this stamp? Because last I checked my FACTS, it was TERRORISTS that committed those atrocities, not "Muslims". TERRORISTS who have killed many people of all faiths INCLUDING Muslims. There are hundreds of thousands of upstanding, peace-loving United States Muslim citizens in this country who have strongly and loudly vocalized their extreme disapproval of terrorist activities.
So why... can someone please explain to me... WHY we need to boycott a Muslim stamp? Because I just don't FREAKING understand.
This email he sent was horrifying to me.
It wasn't lecturing me on my religious practices, it wasn't lude jokes, it wasn't anything regarding my fertility struggles.
It was an email laced with intolerance.
The U.S. Postal Service will be releasing this stamp, along a collection of other Christmas stamps:
And contained the following hateful remarks:
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm Flight 103!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military barracks in Saudi Arabia!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!
REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on 9/11/2001!
REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!
Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class holiday postage stamp.
REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp when purchasing your stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.
I am sorry, but perhaps I am just confused. WHY should I boycott this stamp? Because last I checked my FACTS, it was TERRORISTS that committed those atrocities, not "Muslims". TERRORISTS who have killed many people of all faiths INCLUDING Muslims. There are hundreds of thousands of upstanding, peace-loving United States Muslim citizens in this country who have strongly and loudly vocalized their extreme disapproval of terrorist activities.
So why... can someone please explain to me... WHY we need to boycott a Muslim stamp? Because I just don't FREAKING understand.
24 Comments:
Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic- how many American children died in Oklahoma at his hand? I say we boycott all stamps Christian as well.
Lisa
Hmm. I think it's time to buy some pretty new blue stamps for the new year.
Boycott Cheese!
Wisconsin voted for John Kerry in 2004, that must mean those cheese eating bastards love terrorism!
Oh yeah, boycott airplanes too - because the terrorists use airplanes to attack us. And I'm sure there is something screwy with Windows XP operating system, so I'll boycott that too.
Actually, I wonder how that Southern Baptist boycott of Disney is going. I'm sure one day we'll hear Disney goes chapter 11.
hmmm.... I sincerely do not intend to offend anyone here, but I think it would be prudent to understand a bit more about Muslim teachings before anyone goes out of their way to ‘buy blue stamps.’
I suspect that a lot of the intolerance toward Muslims comes from the fact that the very book they follow, the Koran (or Quran at times), is laced with acceptable violence toward those who are *other* than Muslim, and even towards other Muslims if they happen to be women. Does it condone terrorism or suicide? Not necessarily. But it's not exactly a *harmless* read either.
There is actually an entire section devoted to how to correctly discipline a disobedient woman. Extreme physical abuse is offered as an acceptable form of punishment in this ‘book of God.’
My knowledge of this topic is limited to (a) having taken 2 required courses at Yale on Women in Third World Countries (2) having developed friendships with several women from the Middle East as a result of that class and from work and (3) having dated 3 men from Iran, 2 from India and 2 from Israel.
The Israelis seemed to be very well-versed on what the Koran had to say though I wouldn’t even attempt to claim that they gave an unbiased account of it (having both lived in the Middle East for the first 20 or so years of their lives).
The information they gave me was corroborated by the Moshirafshar family (the next guy I dated), from Iran. Apparently there is a need to control women for their own sake, since women, according to the Koran, are incapable of making their own decisions, and should be treated like children - in fact are lower in the family hierarchy than all male children, regardless of the age of the child. Can you imagine having to ask your 11 year old son for permission to go to the grocery store? Or better yet, to have to have that son “chaperone” you while you’re in public so that you don’t do anything “wrong?” According to the Koran, that child would be blessed with innate intelligence, far beyond yours, simply because he is a male and you are a female.
Let’s also keep in mind that the Taliban staunchly defended their zealous control of Afghanistan based on what the Koran supposedly says.
The Iranian guy I dated, who had moved to America long ago, when the Ayatollah opened the doors and allowed all the "dissidents" to leave, seemed to awkwardly want to defend these religious teachings while not really believing that (a) women were incapable of making any decisions on their own and (b) deserved to be physically abused. I learned a lot about the man I was dating from this conversation - most notably that no matter how well-educated he was, nor how much he hated living in Iran under they tyranny of the Ayatollah and the religious zealots, he was and always would be a Muslim man; a man who defended the Koran as the "only scientifically verifiable" religious book ever written due to some formula built around the number 19. [Supposedly, if a comma or space or any letter of any word ever changes, the formula no longer works. Since it took computers years to come up with this formula in 1974, they surmised that it could only be the true work of God, therefore negating all other religions period.]
So, while I admit that my non-scientific “research” into the world of Muslims is limited and probably biased (since I consider myself a valuable entity, regardless of the fact that I am a woman) and sincerely do not wish to project an air of expertise in any manner, I thought I’d offer up what little info I had on the subject as a way of perhaps answering your question, “why.” Please forgive the long post. I hope it was informative if nothing else. Susan
Susan makes some valid points, but the fact remains that "Muslim" does not equal "terrorist." One might consider adding up all of the innocents who have been killed in the name of "Christianity" to get a better perspective.
Tracy
But Susan, the point of the email was to boycott the stamp because of terrorism - not because of treatment of women.
Also the stamp was issued over 2 years ago - a little late on the outrage, isn't he?
-Beaver Girl
Susan, I do find your comments very interesting. And in all honesty, as my husband said to me, I do not defend Islam any more than I would defend Christianity, which is also laced with violence in its history (think of Queen "Bloody" Mary who killed large numbers of people for not following her faith). However, I still do not see how this supports the idea of boycotting a stamp for a Muslim holiday. Are you saying that Islam itself should be boycotted? Because their religion is harsh, they do not deserve a token of commemoration for their holiday? I don't follow.
suzinalexa-
The book is different from the religion. Look at the Judeo-Christian bibles. They advocate stonings and other violence.
The violent sects will always grasp upon the violent sections of the books while ignoring the more peaceful teachings. The peaceful sects will grasp onto the peaceful and hopeful messages, and ignore the violence as a thing of the past.
To condemn a religion or group of people based on the presence of violence in their holy book? It would be to condemn most religions except for possibly Buddhism or Wiccanism?
-Sara
http://www.somewhatsilent.com
(Incidentally, the whole idea of a boycott of this stamp is sort of silly. Last I checked, post offices didn't just wily-nily give out religious stamps. They had to be specifically requested. And if any wily-nillyness exists, it's usually in favor of Christmas. The chances of someone in this country giving out an Islamic stamp on the spur of the moment, is very slim. So unless your friend means "boycott" in the sense that whenever people buy stamps they should specifically state "Not the /TERRORIST/ stamp!" or some other bit of intolerance... Then it's sort of like a "Don't jump off any bridges today" boycott.)
I'm with you, Olivia D. I'm not a big fan of Islam or Christianity. Remember the new "christian" senator-elect who doesn't think abortion is acceptable under any circumstances and doesn't think that gays or single mothers should be able to teach in public schools?
And Muslim does not equal terrorist. It does often mean some pretty crap treatment of women. I've spent time in Muslim North Africa and I couldn't wait to get out of there because of the way women, including myself, were treated. However, generalizing about all people who practice a specific religion is how hatred is bred, and violence often follows hatred.
Your relative is out of his mind. Unfortunately, so are a lot of other people in this country.
An eye-opening post.
Patricia
http://laf.typepad.com/
Totally agree with you O.
If we had to condemn a religion based on the actions of a few militants we would be condemning all religions. Had this same arguement with my in laws on Sunday. I hate people who generalize. Hate it.
um, if it weren't a loved one who sent that to you, i would tell you to email them back and tell them to shove it up their hate-filled-ass.. no need to do any explanations, because, well, i've found that people who hate that much are not quite smart enough to get any kind of logical reasoning.. but its an uncle, so i apologize for my snide remark..
as far as susan.. interesting, i was watching pbs (yes, that liberal tv enclave *roll eyes*) late last night, i mean, dreadfully late.. caught a newshour of some sort.. and i caught the tail end of a report on women.. what they said was something along the lines of 'we won't see women in america becoming equal to men in america for a very very very long time.' the inequality in america might not be as blatant as it is other places, but its there.. we just need to look at things like equal pay for equal work, violent crime statistics, and yes, our favorite, abortion. so, before critisisng another culture and its treatment of women, take a good hard look at your own. oh, and if susan isn't american, please remember that this is a very christian country, and the vast majority of people who continue the unequal practices and fights against equal rights, are, in fact, good christians.
i'm done.
-brooke
from: rivervision
Hi guys - sorry for the delay in being able to answer. Today is my account's end of quarter (this work stuff really puts a hole in my day.) ;o)
Ok, so lots of good comments and I really do agree with you guys. If Ollie had asked why people were intolerant of Christians and I thought I had some insightful information, I'd probably have posted a long and pedantic note about that too (fat chance though - I grew up in an atheist family, who all suddenly “found God” when my mom got cancer so I have an inherent distrust of religion in general).
I sincerely hope that I didn't come of as suggesting that anyone boycott anything. I'm certainly not the type to boycott things; I'm far too lazy for the concerted effort it would take. Frankly, it's all I can do to stay on top of my job, find a house I can freakin afford, try to have a rug rat or two of my own before my ovaries shrivel up and die, and monitor every calorie that goes into my mouth so I can occasionally still fit into that slinky little number I keep around for holiday parties, not to mention the required body hair removal that seems to have spun out of control round here lately (brazilian, anyone?), but that's another story. :o)
Oh, and Brooke? Just ouch.
If you think that getting equal pay for equal work anywhere *near* compares to having your father wrap chains and cement blocks around you and throw you into the family swimming pool because some random guy on the street told him that you "flirted" with another man (while wearing a burka in 110 degree heat, showing nothing but your eyes), well, I'd like to invite you to consider reading even one paragraph of a book on how it is there and let us know if you still think women in America have it tough.
Thanks for coming back Susan! I am glad you posted again. Who knew my dingdong Uncle would have opened such an interesting topic? And I do sincerely hope your mom is doing well.
Hey Ollie -and all- I'm glad I got the chance to take a quick peak today (though I do read your blog a few times a week, I just have rarely posted a response).
I was a bit surprised with the notion that I had come off as intolerant or generalizing or especially backing the whole notion of boycotting something. Especially you and Tertia - I can't have you guys thinking I'm a schmuck. You're among very favorite bloggers! Forgive me? :o(
Anyway, I'll certainly try to make myself more clear going forward. I'll have to come up with a disclaimer of small print or something.
Hey Ollie -and all- I'm glad I got the chance to take a quick peak today (though I do read your blog a few times a week, I just have rarely posted a response).
I was a bit surprised with the notion that I had come off as intolerant or generalizing or especially backing the whole notion of boycotting something. Especially you and Tertia - I can't have you guys thinking I'm a schmuck. You're among very favorite bloggers! Forgive me? :o(
Anyway, I'll certainly try to make myself more clear going forward. I'll have to come up with a disclaimer of small print or something.
Susan, I didn't actually think you were being intolerant, I was just confused regarding your angle, scout's honor. I appreciate the perspective and did find it interesting. HORRIFYING, but interesting.
I'm sorry - I found your blog from Julie's, and I just had to comment on the topic here.
I was a Muslim woman for four years. I converted to the religion after about two years of university and personal religious study. Comparative religion is a hobby of mine, and I have to say that I'm disappointed with some of what is being said here, however well-meaning.
It is false that there is a section of the Qur'an devoted to explaining how to discipline women. It is false that women are considered children in the Qur'an (unless one wants to take the warning not to attack women and children during war as an equivocation!). It is false that Muslims are encouraged to discriminate against members of other religions (whether by force or otherwise).
What is true is that the Qur'an functions on several different levels, with several shades of meaning for almost every verse. It is in Arabic, and unlike the Bible, there is no "official" translation. Any translation is, at best, an interpretation - as any Muslim who speaks the language will tell you.
It is true that historically Muslims - yes, Muslim men - have CHOSEN to adhere to whatever shade of meaning best conformed to their current cultural practices, or what which benefitted them the most. What is true is that what many fundamentalist Muslims (or Islamists, as scholars refer to them) give even more credence to the body of medieval Islamic tradition than to what is actually written in the Qur'an (this is, for example, where stoning for adultery/homosexuality comes from. Such penalties are not found anywhere in the Qur'an).
There is a verse, one verse, in the Qur'an, that is traditionally used to defend or endorse wife-beating. However, the word used for "beat" can also be translated as "separate from." Beat your wife to settle a dispute, or separate from her? Such are the options available to those who study the language of the Qur'an. Just as men have been taking the most stringent and harsh views of the world using this text, we can also take the most compassionate and liberal views of the world using the same text. There is that much meaning there.
This is only ONE example!
There are Muslims of all stripes - fundamentalist, traditionalist, conservative, moderate, progressive, liberal. Progressives and liberals don't tend to get much face time in the news, but they are there. They read this scripture and find that we've all been duped - there is no one way to read the Qur'an. There is no one Islam.
If we start believing that there is, then the terrorists win.
http://www.progressivemuslims.org
I am the formerly Muslim woman and religious studies student who just posted. I also have to add that honor killings and female genital mutilation are remnants of a tribal society dressed up in Islamic language. They are appalling acts, and they cannot be found in the Qur'an, anywhere. Any person, Muslim or no, who defends (or condemns) these acts as being a part of Qur'anic practice, is simply mistaken. And I'll tell that to any shaykh's face!
Hi, in response to the Anon former Muslim, thank you for the information you offered here as well. I just wanted to clarify that the info I received on the portions of the Koran that I spoke of are listed in several books and though it would take some effort to dig them out (they were assigned reading at the courses I took), I'd be happy to if you really wanted me to. The info was also 'confirmed' (because I simply couldn't believe it, I asked everyone who might have some real knowledge on it) by several of the women from the class and by the families of the guys I dated. If the actual sections do not exist, I apologize, but there seems to be a real and honest belief among the Muslims I knew and both the teachers of the classes I took that they do indeed exist. This, as you point out so eloquently, could very well be a result of perception. It seems to be a pretty pervasive perception though.
No, looking up references would be unnecessary, as I don't wish to get into a debate in someone else's personal space. The fundamental text I'd use to argue would be the Qur'an itself, and let what others want to tell me it says be damned :).
You're right that what I am suggesting is that there are a lot of widely-held perceptions in the Islamic world as a whole that should change, and are changing - at least in individual minds and some liberal scholars (if you are interested in external texts, I can certainly provide a list of people whose work I think you should read). But as I've said, just because a majority believe things to be true does not mean that it is the only view that can be held. Christianity went through a dark period in the past (ha, or is going through one now in the USA ;)), and there are those who say that this is Islam's dark period, before its renaissance.
Even within traditional Islam, though, there are four schools of thought, which hold very different views as to what constitutes Islamic laws. Ask your acquaintances about the Hanafi school, for example (I don't know of any countries that follow Islam from this - most liberal - school of thought, though many individuals do)? Or about Ismaeli Muslims, or Sufism.
No, looking up references would be unnecessary, as I don't wish to get into a debate in someone else's personal space. The fundamental text I'd use to argue would be the Qur'an itself, and let what others want to tell me it says be damned :).
You're right that what I am suggesting is that there are a lot of widely-held perceptions in the Islamic world as a whole that should change, and are changing - at least in individual minds and some liberal scholars (if you are interested in external texts, I can certainly provide a list of people whose work I think you should read). But as I've said, just because a majority believe things to be true does not mean that it is the only view that can be held. Christianity went through a dark period in the past (ha, or is going through one now in the USA ;)), and there are those who say that this is Islam's dark period, before its renaissance.
Even within traditional Islam, though, there are four schools of thought, which hold very different views as to what constitutes Islamic laws. Ask your acquaintances about the Hanafi school, for example (I don't know of any countries that follow Islam from this - most liberal - school of thought, though many individuals do)? Or about Ismaeli Muslims, or Sufism.
No, looking up references would be unnecessary, as I don't wish to get into a debate in someone else's personal space. The fundamental text I'd use to argue would be the Qur'an itself, and let what others want to tell me it says be damned :).
You're right that what I am suggesting is that there are a lot of widely-held perceptions in the Islamic world as a whole that should change, and are changing - at least in individual minds and some liberal scholars (if you are interested in external texts, I can certainly provide a list of people whose work I think you should read). But as I've said, just because a majority believe things to be true does not mean that it is the only view that can be held. Christianity went through a dark period in the past (ha, or is going through one now in the USA ;)), and there are those who say that this is Islam's dark period, before its renaissance.
Even within traditional Islam, though, there are four schools of thought, which hold very different views as to what constitutes Islamic laws. Ask your acquaintances about the Hanafi school, for example (I don't know of any countries that follow Islam from this - most liberal - school of thought, though many individuals do)? Or about Ismaeli Muslims, or Sufism.
oh hey susan.. i am aware that what we in america go through is not nearly as bad as other countries.. but i'll point out some things..
a) i had a very scrawny boyfriend at one point. he knew that if i wanted to i could kick his ass. but he also knew that he was safer walking around than i was. the threat to his body and safety was far less than mine... simply because he is a man.
i live alone. i go out at night alone. i do a lot at night. yet, i am told that i shouldn't ride on the bike path at night, because i am a woman. i'm told i need to be careful when i go out at night by myself.
while i don't think about it a lot, the wonder if i am going to be the next rape statistic is there. the wonder if the next man i date is going to beat me is there. its something i live with, its something my friends live with.
its not overt, but the terrorism towards women in this country is there. we might like to think it isn't, but it is. and any woman who thinks its not is living in some sort of utopia that i've not found.. and believe me, i live the one of the closest things to utopia i believe i can find (the most progressive neighborhood in a city with a very loud progressive voice and dense community -- eugene, oregon).
b) the terrorism against women in muslim countries is not about the religion, its about the culture. there are wonderful people in eugene who are muslim. strong vivacious women, leaders in our peace and justice community. they are not treated by their husbands like you lay out, they are treated by their husbands with the dignity and respect that they deserve. their faith in their religion is to be admired, their knowledge is to be commended.
each religion has many facets. look at the other 2 major religions and you'll see the many facets there too. you'll see christian men beating their wives because they believe that they need to prove that they are in charge, because god has made them so. you see innocent doctors killed by christian fundamentalists because those christians believe they are acting in the name of god. have you forgotten matthew sheppard already? those guys believe in the christian god. and robert byrd. and and and. the terror inflicted on this country by 'good' christians is simply unnacetpable. and to deny its existance, and to deny that the religion that george w. bush believes so strongly in has the same potential for terror that islam has is to deny the truth. in fact, i don't think we need to think potential, its already there. one word - iraq.
anyhow. i don't think any of us have a right to critisize and be so judgemental towards one particular religion, culture or society. before we critisize we must look deep at our own selves, our own people, our own beliefs. we must look at the good and the bad. and when we do that we understand that we are no better than anyone else.
thanks olivia for creating this space. i hope i haven't bothered you by going on so long. please feel free to delete my comment if you think it is not appropriate.
-brooke
from rivervision
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